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Showing content with the highest reputation on 07/19/21 in all areas

  1. I dropped out of the CSM election race as I wanted to focus on my exams rather than campaigning however I still wanted to highlight how terrible content creation is for FCs across all the different areas of the game and the issues which FCs face. Citadels are the obvious and blatant issue with content generation directly and indirectly through the various knock-on effects they have and there are many other issues with content generation but I believe citadels are the major one so I will focus on them. The carrot and stick: Even with the implementation of cores , the reward of killing citadels is still slim to none. The fact that you can essentially spam them and they cost fuck all means even if a fc spends 1 and half hours cumulatively to kill let’s say a fortizar in what is likely a difficult timezone for that fc, the other side can simply blue ball because a fit fortizar pretty much costs the same as 2 fit t2 dreads now. This makes the impact of killing citadels pretty negligible unless you burn the entire region as asset safety means all the assets in even a staging fortizar/keepstar will be inevitably safe. Therefore overall, the impact of killing a couple forts and azbels doesn’t have a huge impact for the most defending groups and they can afford to blue ball just leading to a huge time waste for the other side. Athanors vs POSes: I admit that politics in the game have changed a lot from the time of passive moons, but I believe it is clearly evident athanors have not yielded the quantity or quality of fights that POSes would create. R64s would only give alliances 3-5b/month as passive income however the fights they would create would be hundreds of billions because the allure of the passive income was enough to make sides commit to a fight. Athanors as compared to POS moons now largely provide income for individual players rather than supporting a group in most instances. This is absolutely fine however as you actually have to physically mine them , when going on an offensive campaign, killing a bunch of enemy athanors really does nothing or provide the attacker any benefit, unless you intend to take over and live in that area. Because moons are everywhere in low sec and null sec including border low sec regions and NPC null sec regions, the old passive moons would generate a lot of fights in these regions as they were not necessarily in someone’s sovereignty and therefore required far less important and more importantly the income they provided meant the defender and the attacker had incentives to shoot them. Damage Cap and Timer mechanics: The damage cap aspect was initially intended by CCP to give people time to form fleets to catch people reinforcing citadels however in reality all it does is waste peoples time massively. In most instances now people don’t even bother forming for shield reinforces because you can do it at whatever time which normally isn’t the prime of the defender. Whereas the armour and hull timers will be in the prime TZ of the enemy and they have plenty of time to form as they know when the timer is out. This just makes the damage cap a huge ball ache for an attacking FC and fleet and a huge time sink. Eve has an aging population, people have less time to spend fucking around shooting a structure for 30 minutes with a low fight chance. This is made even worse when a lot of the time TZ tanking means the structures will be in difficult time zones making the blueballs hurt even more when you have to bash a structure twice at 1am. Even though POSes were stront timed and they would likely come out at a preferable time for the defender you could stront coast to make a more preferable timer and even if the timer was ass you didn’t always have to spend 30 minutes bashing it in the first place. The lack of damage cap on POSes also meant a lot of groups would 1 siege cycle POSes on the shield rfs. This provided the chance of the defender or another group being able to catch them and get a bunch of capital kills or create more spontaneous fights which are normally more brutal and much less blobby because the attacker had committed to the grid. Citadel weapons: Citadel weapons give a defender a huge advantage because they are very overpowered for how much citadels cost. A fortizar costs around 12-14b cored and t2 fit which is now the same as two dreads however, you can have PDS, do 35k dps , have a bomb launcher, and it has a 15k dps damage cap plus ewar mods. You cant incapacitate the weapons like you could for POSes and the weapons mean attackers cant use certain compositions in particular the bomb launcher. If you use battleships on a citadel with a bomb launcher you are disadvantaged vs an equal sized BS fleet from the defender because you have to sit there and eat bombs and they can choose when they engage and this probably adds to why the HAC meta exists. The anti-capital weapons are exceptionally strong meaning most people , given scarcity will prefer to use sub blobs and batphone rather than try and use capitals to try and equalise the advantage of the defenders. The fact that citadels provide such a huge defender advantage has accelerated the n+1 mentality because it encourages attackers to batphone and form more because they know that they cant really take an equal fight on an enemy citadel and then that in turn will just encourage the defender to batphone. The knock on effect of this results in either huge blob fights or blueballs and fights fizzling out. FCs are the MVPs of most alliances in the game, they keep alliances alive but these days they have to put in hours and hours work for a low chance of a fight. This just increases the chance of burnout and discourages people from growing as FCs. This discussed issues of citadels coupled with the current meta and mechanics and changes like the resist nerf encouraging n+1 are gradually making the game less of a game and more of a waste of time. I understand that citadels are now too deeply routed into eve and passive moon income will not make a return, but we need a new content generator which is nothing like what citadels are, to actually encourage glorious and bloody fights. Disclaimer: The reason I have kept these points vague and generalised is so that the points can be agreed upon rather than it being more detailed as it would inevitably lead to differences in opinions on the more minor details. For this reason, I am also not going to outline what I think would be a good content generator but im sure if CCP actually cares, others listed here and I would be happy to share our opinions. However, I hope this post enlightens to CCP that it is universally agreed upon by FCs of pretty much every group that citadels are not fun or good content and are tiring us all out. If you want us to keep your game alive then please give us something and work with us not against us. The above is agreed upon by the following from main FCs from the respective groups, in no particular order: No handlebars. : Baltrom Phantomite Rekking Crew : Thelastsparton Dreadbomb. : Seddows Spectre Fleet : Virion Stoneshard Snuffed Out : Tau AD Hy Wanto Destroyer Dock Workers Valasius Hard Knocks Citizens Kappa Pride Solyaris Chtonium : RiotRick DarkSide. : Weedle R cBuHoIIac Siberian Squad : Hanzo Viper Legion of xXDEATHXx : Konstantin Surovij Siege Green. Errestrian The Army of Mango Alliance : Fu1crum Fraternity. Noraus Brave Collective : Shattered Armer NullSechnaya Sholupen : Anure Wallymarts Triumvirate. : Garst Tyrell WE FORM V0LTA : Wolfsdragoon StarFleetCommander Pandemic Legion : Hedliner Northern Coalition. : Vince Draken Nituspar Pandemic Horde : Gobbins Rdmr 00Musky Johnny Trousersnake Test Alliance Please Ignore : Progodlegend Karmen Jell The Initiative. : Dark Shines Pandoralica Goonswarm Federation : Jay Amazingness John Hartley Kendarr Elo Knight Streamer : Bjorn Bee Im sorry if I didnt contact some FCs , I did my best to get most groups from the contacts I had. If you want me to add you or a comment please let me know. Some extra (roughly wrriten) comments/opinions by various FCs : Garst Tyrell: Ccp never scaled citadels from small to large.A keepstar takes just as long to RF at damage cap as an astrahus, damage cap aside, and theres no way to speed this up if its undefended because the damage cap is the damage cap. so not only does it suck to fight, but it sucks to clean up undefended afk structures, especially because the fuel bay is not capped at 30d like a POS, so they very rarely go offline anymore. every 800m citadel acts like an older 30bil npc station that took weeks to deploy, you can dock, etc. theres no rep requirement so you dont have to actually defend your shit, or if theres a fight, you are stuck doing some dumb meta of splitting guns or inviting more batphones to keep a timer paused instead of actually having fun by shooting the fleet on grid RiotRick: CCP's recent game changes in the last couple years (citadels, damage cap included) adds time and effort. Anytime you add useless effort for playstyles into the game you create an unnecessary fork in the road: Give up real life and play the game, or stop playing the game to enjoy real life. It's abundantly clear recently, that tenured players are choosing to stop playing the game. Everyone is older now, and play time for them is casual.Fleet commanders are finding less targets, less hunts, and in the end, less people will join fleets. Virion Stoneshard: It's so easy for anyone to just PDS pretty much any fleet that isn't t3's/bs's etc when it comes to a fort or above that that content is pretty much unavailable to the point where smaller scale fleets like public fleets, and hell, we can get 50-60 dudes on a good night, cannot fight on citadels because let's be real nobody gives a fuck about an astra and anything bigger will decimate the majority of fleets groups our size can put up even deathstars are less cancerous. Baltrom: Citadels are aids on every level, even small gang. Used to roam 00 and fuck on people's undocks, outposts were cool mechanics, could even rf their services and force them to undock.Now u small gang roam and people warp to any citadel, be it athanors, asshut or Fort. U CANNOT fight on that grid Nituspar: I'd maybe emphasize how big of a deal the human factor in stronting (POSes) was, a lot of my best fights came from a pos timer being off by 3-6 hours from the target, and how important passive moon income was for generating fights. Valasius: I dont want to comment on pos warfare as i've never actually been in a pos fight. you kind of hinted in there but just to add, if dreads were able to bypass even just shield damage caps, we'd see more dreads out in space and sieged. Reaching damage minimum kinda forces more batphoning if its an equal fight, which is kind of alluded to in that post, for example in my recent tengu fleet i had to keep maybe 10 tengus shooting fort nonstop. Hedliner: I dont disagree with most of what you're saying, citadels / upwell structures or whatever you want to call them generally are under-priced space junk which serve very little purpose other than cluttering up systems and building a wall of shit for attackers to chew through. the larger it gets the bigger the issue, i agree with that too. I think damage cap is a bit of a joke, and you're right they're massively favourable to the defender. Im not sure i agree that the weapons are overpowered though, ive never once found myself thinking that really, apart from keepstar dd, which i think is an absolute joke on subcaps. it just shouldnt apply to them imo. I also dont think they should have a bomb launcher, at all (on any structure) and I think them adding cores was a weak attempt at making it worth shooting structures. if they wanted to do that the cores should have been more expensive too, in line with more expensive structures. Wolfsdragoon: “when going on an offensive campaign, killing a bunch of enemy athanors really does nothing or provide the attacker any benefit, unless you intend to take over and live in that area.” This is really big. This is what happened when we last deployed vs FI.RE, they just began to blueball everything including all of the ihubs around their staging. Because they knew if they just bored us enough they'd just take the ihubs and anything else back with no risk of a fight because we didn't intend to live there.At one point we took their staging ihub and TCU and all ihubs within 1j of their staging as well and they just stood down each time. Shattered Armer: Everything that might be a minor inconvenience in Lowsec becomes 100x worse when ADMs and Sov Defense upgrades come into play. CCP wanted to offer an incentive to alliances for defending their own space, but as usual, miscalculated how badly it could be taken to an extreme. The fact that Defenders have such a huge advantage for both when their sov is vulnerable, and when their structures come out of repair, and can strategically set those timers to be as inconvenient as possible to an attacking force makes any sort of offensive action a huge uphill battle For the cost of spamming citadels as an offensive and defensive tool, its trivial to deploy them and far too easy to defend them. The attacker is too pressed for time, and the defender determines whether or not a capital (not super) force is even viable depending on how they fit it. Tenebrexes are the worst offenders of them all. Progodlegend: Hy Wanto hit the nail on the head with a lot of his assessment. Ultimately Citadels are not providing healthy content for this game. The fights around them are tedious and usually not worth the time and effort. I attribute a large portion of this to the design of citadels than I do the current balance of subcaps vs. caps and caps vs. structures, but I will say that fixing citadels alone will not solve all the current pain points around citadels. However, all of the points listed here are valid and among the frustrating mechanics in EVE currently, to each one: - Citadel cores didn't hurt anything, but they didn't solve anything either. Making Citadels give you a small amount of money for killing them was never going to be an incentive to shoot citadels. The risk vs. reward will never workout properly as long as the battles work like they currently do. Who cares about a few billion isk when you have to risk 10s of billions for it? This was always a weird approach to the structure spam problem, and didn't really solve anything. Just another checkbox people have when they put citadels down. - Athanors and active moon mining are largely a failure. As a content generator, they don't work. People have plenty of reasons to mine in space (well they did at least, but that's another issue), and attacking rorquals or miners on their athanor or tatara is actually the worst place to it, as they have citadel defense s to help them out. Why would you do that when you can go shoot a rorqual in the next region who is sitting in an anomaly with no citadel defenses to help? The idea of appointment content by watching the moon chunk approach the shatter date never worked, for a variety of reasons (it lingers too long, most of them are well defended, etc.). And that's just the reasons the content generation aspect of it don't work. It's now become clear that taking moons from passive to active income provided little benefits while removing one of the main reasons forowning shooting moons in the first place. Because active moon mining has to be defended, most people wait until they have pacified a region before they really start moon mining. This never used to be a case, taking R64s used to be the first thing you did when you started shooting somebody, as it didn't take long to be making pure profit from it. As Hy wanto mentioned, passive income is so valuable that it made sense to risk 10s of billions of assets for the chance at a nice monthly paycheck, where as active moons have never had this same dynamic They are great for corporations and small groups of people to mine, but corporations used to mine in null sec anomalies too, so I don't think we'd miss that aspect of itBut of course, all of the side issues around citadels wouldn't be as noticable if the citadels were actually fun to fight on, and that's where the real issue is Citadel tether mechanics + their weaponry have given the defenders too much of advantage for years now, and the iteration has just not come fast enough to solve the main problems. Citadels are in this weird place where you're actually better off shooting them with subcaps than capitals, because of how deadly they are to capitals, but the defenders can use capitals to defend them with near impunity thanks to the ability to retether, so as an attacker you have to be willing to either fight capitals with only subcaps against some of the most broken anti-subcap capital mechanics. or you have to be willing to risk large dread fleets or even your entire super fleet for a fortizar that might cost 14 billion and can be spammed infinitely in the same system (when I deployed to shoot Horde one time, I just spammed 8 fortizars in the same system to make it not worthwhile to shoot any of ours.) This is by far the biggest problem. The only place I will slightly disagree with Hy Wanto, or offer an alternative take at least, is over the damage cap mechanic. The concept could work, and in theory it would create a nice tug of war mechanic, where a fight occurs and whoever holds the grid wins the timer. These fights would happen because the damage cap mechanic would force the attackers to stay on grid, and the defenders to push them off. Without a damage cap mechanic the defenders would either instantly rep the structure, or the attackers would very quickly reinforce it. As Hy Wanto pointed out the pre-damage cap mechanics did make the attackers risk their capitals more often in order to get that quick reinforce, and that was a nice content generator, but I feel that a properly tuned damage cap mechanic, with good citadel fight mechanics and properly balanced cap vs subcap warfare, could work. But he's right that in it's current iteration it's definitely not working and causing more problem than it's solving. I attribute this to a combination of the damage cap mechanic itself needing a rework and some fresh thinking about how best to execute it, as well as all the other terrible mechanics mentioned by Hy Wanto making fighting on citadels pretty miserable.
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  2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV7C-GofDO0 I love British music
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  3. I enjoyed the changes a ton, and still do, one of the top five of the last few years. then again, I actually brawl.
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  4. There are quite a few of us who want exactly that.
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